Questions and Answers
The following questions and answers were necessary because of a few web sites that falsely attacked and accused our art and people of various untruths, exaggerations and half truths in order to try in vain to cast doubt on our art, belittle our ranks and teachers and in general keep this great art from reaching the public.
It in no way reflects how we feel about any particular school or the great old masters of Indonesia who we have always given honor to in particular: Pendekar Mama Sukarma, Mas Jud, Pendekar Sartono, Pendekar Jafri, Pendekar Sirait, Master Wetzel and all their heirs. We also give honor to Guru John Malter and all the others who shared with us their Cimande on the way and whose influences came together to make Pukulan Cimande Pusaka.
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Q - Some sites are claiming Pendekar Mama does not exist or lives in Banten any response?
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Q - Some are saying that you claim that your art is the best Cimande in the world and isn’t that an insult to the Indonesian teachers, Masters and Pendekars?
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Q - Pendekar Sanders what about this talk of you not being humble by saying people should come here to train instead of Indonesia?
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Q - Pendekar Sanders recently on one of those hate sites one person made a comment that you should not call yourself a Pendekar, what is your reply?
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Q - Why do some people seem to complain about the use of the word “Pusaka” or "Cimande" in your art?
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Q - Are there any good links you could refer us to?
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Q - What about your contention that some in the Muslim faith watered down the art?
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Q - Pendekar why does your Silat in many cases look so different from a lot of what we see in Indonesia and elsewhere?
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Q - What about those who look at sites and say hey that’s not Javanese head wrap or this or that rank or name is wrong?
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Q - How is a person to know these things or check these people out?
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Q - What about on YouTube on one section it said battle tested for hundreds of years in the jungle, I thought this art was your development?
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Q - Pendekar Sanders, many people have questioned your title. Do you have
any documentation that you can share?
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Q - How were you tested in Banten?
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Q - In some Chinese and Japanese systems I have heard students must pay
large sums of money for high rank or inheritance, was this the case in
Indonesia?
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Q - Pendekar Sanders, what made you pick an unusual art like Pencak Silat?
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Q - What can you tell us about Guru Willy J.C. Wetzel?
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Q - Did you ever meet Guru Wetzel?
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Q - How did you get information on Pencak Silat in the late 70's?
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IQ - Pukulan Cimande Pusaka the synthesis of a Chinese style and Pencak
Silat Cimande?
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Q - Can you explain the various spellings of Cimande?
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Q - What can you tell us about the origins of Cimande?
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Q - Where do Mas Djut and Mr. Atma fit into this historical picture?
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Q - I believe I read somewhere that Mas Djut was a member of the Badui
people in West Java. Is this possible?
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Q - How long did you train with John Malter and what was the highest
rank that you received?
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Q - When did you begin to seek out other Cimande instructors so that you
could enhance your training?
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Q - When did you decide to go to West Java to further your training?
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Q - Compared to some Silat and other Malay Arts Cimande has a lot of Bunga and stylized flowery moves. Does this make it less effective or less deadly?
Some sites are claiming Pendekar Mama does not exist or lives in Banten any response?
In response to my question and answer section on the latest hate site directed towards Westerners who practice Pencak Silat, I called them out. I said to them how can they say out of one corner of their mouth honor the Indonesian elder masters and out of the other corner of their mouth say one of my teachers, one of the most respected Cimande teachers in Cimande Village Pendekar Mama Sukarma had no right to be yet another, who gave me the title of Pendekar.
Well of course I had them on that point, but wait they decided to be like the ostrich and stick their head in the sand. They decided to just say err, well gee, he does not exist, yeah that’s it.
They then try and throw the slow witted of the trail further, they said he was in Banten and Mama was just a name given to elders in respect (of course they never mentioned the rest of his name) Of course we know he is not in Banten but in Cimande Village and so do they. Or they have not read my site as carefully as I know they have dying to find something to talk about. Of course on their very site is Bobby Edmunds a respected Silat teacher in the USA who can tell them and has that he has been to Cimande Village in West Java and went to Pendekar Mama’s house where my picture and my student’s picture were seen.
Of course they won’t talk about that or their lie would soon be exposed. So here again are the many pictures of Pendekar Mama Sukarma, the certificate he holds, his tarian as he performs and more.
Of course there is also all the village elders that Pendekar Mama had sign my certificate as witness to the event, maybe they don’t exist either, or maybe they will just decide to call them names or degrade them also?
Here at last is proof positive that this terribly biased hate filled site manufactures lies to support whatever they are pushing. Here is all the evidence one needs to discount all they say as here and now they have proven themselves fabricators of a giant lie to cover up their own two faced actions.
As far as the challenge is concerned that comes directly from Pendekar Mama as he instructed me to do, to put out a challenge to each and every one of them to come to Cimande Village where everyone knows him and tell him he does not exist, he is not a Pendekar, tell him he had no right to promote me to Pendekar and be prepared to fight, not with words on a hate site but with real Pencak Silat. But then that would take courage , better time would be spent practicing for self improvement and I refuse to enter these sites of hate and lies, more accurate information is to be found at the grocery store in the tabloids.
One more thing I would like to point out, as if it were not apparent. One trick of the double talkers is this - they get on a public forum and they call a person who is in the business of martial arts, arts of war, a liar, a cheat, a fraud, all of the worst things they could say, then when that person who was wronged takes offense as Pendekar Mama has and asks these computer make believe warriors to show up and be men they cry and bitch and moan about customs and Adat and Hormat as if they themselves have conducted their actions in a fair way. I will reiterate you are cowards , liars and hate mongers, your actions are lowly and all can see that. Calling you out as Pendekar Mama, myself and my senior instructors have is the way of warriors and honorable men not hate monger whimps.
Come to us with your Adat and Hormat with respect and receive the same. I open my doors to all who come in peace to learn and I will gladly prove every single thing I have said or written either in written ways or physical ones. You are reaping what you have sown and by the way thanks for all the publicity enrolment is skyrocketing.
Some are saying that you claim that your art is the best Cimande in the world and isn’t that an insult to the Indonesian teachers, Masters and Pendekars?
The answer is quite clear. I have said you cannot learn Pukulan Cimande Pusaka in Indonesia and that is true because it is the component parts of all my teachers material that I have assembled HERE.
I have to make this clear as in the past I had people wanting to go and see exactly what I teach in Indonesia and from one person and they won’t find that. Understand what I teach is from all my teachers and includes all my Indonesian teachers (which is all of them except Guru Malter) so obviously that pays great respect to them.
What I am saying is that unfortunately because of the culture and the religion a LOT of the systems have been humanized, the animal styles watered down or removed completely. In those cases what we have we believe to be far better, but better because it is more like the OLD Indonesian ways not the NEW ways.
Is it still possible to find the unaltered arts in Indonesia?
YES there are still some very good people and arts. For example the Mas Jud students being of the Abangan belief system have not abandoned the animals so in that case it is not watered down.
I am sure others have ignored the religious demands and the demands of the IPSI to humanize the art and if so they are also possibly better. Remember this was Pendekar Jafris big battle with the IPSI and here we have a great Indonesian Master saying the same thing.
People like to take things out of context and run with their own agenda. I have also seen some say "real” Cimande is more complex than what we do, again an ignorant statement, as they have not seen our curriculum. I don’t think ANY Cimande has more complexity than we do. We have ALL the seated and standing Jurus of Embah Kahir Cimande from Pendekar Mama, all the animal Jurus of the Mas Jud style, the Naga, the Kujang Jurus, all the Pedang Jurus of both the Embah Kahir original form and the later Cimande Suliwa, the Sera Depok Jurus the S Lanka of Mas Jud, the internal portions, the old ways of fighting with the Keris, the Trumbu Jurus and on and on.
Our curriculum is so large it scares a lot of people away; they have to realize it takes a long time. What we have is honoring my past teachers, Pendekar Jafri, Pendekar Sirait, and Guru Malter which goes back to Master Wetzel who was full Indonesian, Pendekar Mama and all the relatives and old students of Mas Jud. Notice we have mostly Indonesians I am giving honor to.
It is because of them I was able to develop Pukulan Cimande Pusaka. If you like this you have to come to one of our schools to learn it.
Pendekar Sanders what about this talk of you not being humble by saying people should come here to train instead of Indonesia?
Well, you know for years I tried that, telling my students to go to Indonesia but then one after the other they all came back saying, but we went over there and spent all that money and we could not find an art that moved like this, we did not see the snake and many others.
Those that we showed our style were blown away by it and when we sparred with them they were lost. I hesitated to say it was my creation from my teachers, and that it was the only one I saw that moved like that until I had no choice. I felt bad they kept expecting to see the same art but saw less from the standard things they were shown. I also felt I was not being honest in that what Pendekar Jafri told me was happening had happened and I was not saying anything about it and neither was anyone else.
Pendekar Jafri would not have liked that and I wanted to support his cause even though he is gone. I could have taken the cowards way out kept a low profile, smiled and said just go there and find it, or I could take the way of saying what I had been told and seen but not being popular in some circles for it.
It is easy to be a yes man, harder at times to tell what you believe and so l I took the later path. As far as Pendekars being humble, well yes but sometimes it is also two faced if you are not always the same.
In the Chicago Field Museum when I was chosen many years ago to head up the old Pencak Silat Governing Board by the Indonesian Consulate General in a large hall filled with a lot of Indonesian, an Indonesian Pendekar there was very polite about it and then the next day he was off to Jakarta trying as hard as he could to slander me behind my back, you choose which is the way of a Master.
I prefer to be open about what I have found and believe. That said I have the highest respect for Pendekar Mama of Cimande Village, The Family and old students of Mas Jud , Pendekar Sartono, The Late Pendekar Jafri, The Late Pendekar Siriat, the Late Master Wetzel who all told you how they felt and were open and direct. Notice those are all Indonesians I give the highest respect to.
Pendekar Sanders recently on one of those hate sites one person made a comment that you should not call yourself a Pendekar, what is your reply?
People who say this must be educationally challenged. It really is the most absurd thing and I have explained for years, either they can’t read or comprehend the English language. Here it is again.
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Guru John Malter gave me the rank of Pendekar Moeda in the 70's and I have shown the certificate that says so. .
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Pendekar Banten by test and the support of Pendekar Sirait then International Director and one of my teachers and Pendekar Jafri one of my teachers awarded me the title in writing signed and dated from Pendekar Banten in 1987. I have shown that certificate as proof. Both Pendekars called me from that day forth Pendekar.
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Pendekar Mama one of the highest regarded elder Cimande Masters in Tarikolot gave me the rank of Pendekar and the award was signed by the village elders as witness and I have shown that even with him holding it.
So for those who have command of the English language, they need to get the facts, these are most all Indonesian Masters who gave me the title of Pendekar. Now we have this hate site that goes on and on about honoring the Masters of Indonesia, and the mother country, respecting the Indonesian Masters they say out of one side of their mouth and out of the other they conveniently ignore the fact those are the people who call me Pendekar and gave me the rank not something I made up to call myself. Pendekar Mama is still waiting for any of them to go to Tarikolot and tell him I am not a Pendekar and he should not have called me one, go and be prepared for a fight. So respect the elders as you say and honor what they have done or prove yourselves two faced. So to say I just call myself that is deceitful or stupid or both.
Why do some people seem to complain about the use of the word “Pusaka” or "Cimande" in your art?
Honestly, first of all I have to tell you I traveled all over Indonesia wearing my t shirt with the name of the art on it and no matter whom I met no one had a problem with it. Some actually wanted a shirt and proudly wore it.
Lately there is a small faction who has an agenda of finding things to harp on about us, and they will always find a misspelled word or take something out of context or just lie to make a point. So these answers won’t ever satisfy anyone but a reasonable person without the agenda.
But for your question, and you see I have explained this so much, I realize most already get it.
Pukulan
... means we strike with these things, as well as to also identify what I learned through Guru Malter and he from Master Wetzel.
Cimande
... is from all of my Cimande teachers and
Pusaka
... means to us, and our students and lineage holders what we do has been passed on now to a few generations and will continue to be. It is our Pusaka, our family heirloom as my keris that I leave for my family is my keris Pusaka. Making more of that word is just for the sake of boiling the pot, to hurt and cast doubt.
I also want to point out it was Pendekar Jafri an Indonesian Representative of the IPSI to the USA who suggested and approved my use of the word Pusaka for the aforementioned reasons and of late it also reflects the full Cimande of Pendekar Mama which we pactice and which was also known by Mas Jud. It is termed Cimande Pusaka so it gives honor to that part of our lineage.
People started saying things about the Master Wetzel when everyone on the East Coast knows they were the first real Silat there and Master Willy Wetzel was considered by his peers as a true outstanding master of his art, and a great fighter. To go into people’s personal lives then is again the mark of simply a bad trouble maker, and an insecure mean spirited individual. One who would have hid in any place they could find rather than confront Master Wetzel when he was alive.
Note we don’t say our name is Cimande alone. With all due respect to the great art of Cimande, what we do is the art Mas Jud practiced which includes the entire Cimande curriculum plus the other aspects including the Tiger, Monkey, Crane, the highly guarded Snake portion, Sera and some Cikalong. Mas Jud himself called his art at times, "Cimande", but that was not popular for him as it contained also the aforementioned other components. At times he simply called it Cimande Combinasi or Sera Combinasi.
I am the head of Pukulan Cimande Pusaka as it is my system of Cimande and I can’t make that any more clear, even though some will keep saying what you do does not always look just like standard Cimande. It does not and we like the way it looks, fights and moves.
Are there any good links you could refer us to?
THE INFLUENCE OF ANIMISM ON ISLAM
What about your contention that some in the Muslim faith watered down the art?
Look, that is not my original thought, this goes back to when I was in West Java with Pendekar Jafri and Sirait and they sat me down and told me this was so. They explained in very great detail how the animals were seen as not befitting Allah when expressed by a human and so humans should act like a humans and not an animal and so began a systematic removal of the original animal moves, blows, and trances that made Silat viscous and effective. Jafri was very mad about it and had a falling out with the IPSI over it.
Here is a great example, the Muslim faith has hijacked the kujang blade as a symbol pertaining to Allah and reducing it to a talismanic object, forgetting it was first an animistic and Hindu fighting blade. Now you cannot believe how ardently these fanatics scream that one of the best fighting blades in the world is only a talisman. They even conveniently ignore all of the kujang fighting jurus that exist and were taught in the past by the late Pendekar Herman Suwanda, the current living Pendekar Mama, the late Pendekar Jafri and so many more. They add it is California Silat (since that is now where I live) again either not knowing their own roots or covering it up with loud talk, pomp and name calling. If you search I am sure you can find the tape of Pendekar Suwanda showing the jurus and I have Pendekar Jafri on tape showing his set of kujang fighting jurus he showed me, I also have Pendekar Mama from West Java doing them so this is not idle talk.
Another perfect example is in the early keris the animal gods and forms were rampant on the handles of keris, after Islam they made a caricature of them on the handle, so the form was not recognizable as an animal. How hard is it see that they did the exact thing with the fighting art and the animals, that is made watered down caricatures of them.
In researching all of my roots I came across old animal technique after technique where I could see how it fit in with what was left of the juru or move now being done. I could see it, like seeing a missing part of a jig saw puzzle and I put it back then wow that juru really worked ten times better.
I give thanks to the Indonesians for creating these great arts and am really doing the art and the original founders a service by restoring the abilities that have been hampered by people who were not restructuring the art for the sake of keeping it deadly, just not blasphemous to a particular belief. All religions by the way have done the same thing, so I am not singling any one religion out in all cases but that does not make it any more correct for those of us who want the best fighting applications we can find.
Pendekar why does your Silat in many cases look so different from a lot of what we see in Indonesia and elsewhere?
I am glad you asked that question and I asked myself that for a long time also. I said, why do we look so unusual in the moves, why do we strike in such odd angles that it is hard to see or defend against and why do the other guys seem to move around with a little dance, then stop and upright doing spinning back kicks and other traditional Karate looking moves. Why when we move around with them are they for the most part utterly lost?
Look at the tapes of me moving with some of the highest ranked Indonesians and look closely at their eyes and body language. I had to slow down what I did as the movements were very unique to them and they were somewhat baffled. Not to take anything away from these great Indonesian masters it is just that the way the art moved was different from anything that they had encountered and it made it difficult for them to counter. They moved very well but anytime I wanted to land a blow it was there. Every time they stuck out a hand or leg I hit it constantly. Play then in slow motion and watch how many times I just placed my hand or foot on them gently but they were wide open. Believe me these guys were not appeasing me they were really trying to figure out what was going on and after we worked out the asked me - "Where did you learn to move like that?"
Now after my research in Java with the Mas Jud heirs I finally understand that Pencak Silat went through a forced change to adapt to what the current religion thought made that art form more pure to God, by making it completely humanistic and removing all the old Animal influences. Read the Wali Songo Cimande literature and they make it clear no animals were allowed, only the moves of humans. People who do this now think wow Cimande had no animals but really they are practicing a religious altered art.
Mas Jud at the time called his art Cimande but kept the Animals in it and he was chased all over the place by the fundamental groups and they wanted him to stop calling it Cimande. You see even then this battle was going on over the religious influence. As I said previously just look at the Keris Handles and you can see the beautiful full animal forms of the Majapahit and previous empires and as they fell to the Muslim rule they made the Empus make only a rough caricature of that animal, the Keris and the silat arts went the same way. I am not passing judgment on what they did except to say for us the older animal mannerisms are much more deadly and it is exactly for this reason that we have kept those ways, reintroduced them to our Cimande.
In my opinion that is why we lose the other guys when moving around. They are looking for standard human moves but that is not what we give them. We also prefer the animal trances for superior strength and natural ways to get more in touch with ourselves and the natural world that after all God created, internally and externally no matter what faith one may be.
Look, all religions did things for their own sake, the religion I was brought up in killed thousands of innocent women who were herbalists in the name of God, one can’t say that it is not so as it is history.
The same here, if one wishes to practice the religious altered art because they think it brings them closer to God then that is their right, but we are not bound by a single religion and seek only to preserve and protect those old original moves and ways that always caused the viewer to say what they saw looked fascinatingly deadly. God also made the animals, we all have spirits and share this world together and we wish to all learn from each other.
One can say the Muslims created the newer Pencak Silat devoid of the animals but the older style was there many hundreds perhaps thousands of years before the first Muslim stepped on the islands. In the end we should accept both forms of Pencak Silat as existing, the older and the newer, each recognizing how the other arrived and each cannot deny the existence of the other. Choose which one you like as we have.
What about those who look at sites and say hey that’s not Javanese head wrap or this or that rank or name is wrong?
Again, most of what you see like this is simply the work of an assassin. They make it their job to scrutinize for spelling or other superfluous items in some belief that if they convince a person that a mistake was made in the spelling a name, then that somehow makes the entire art bogus.
How is a person to know these things or check these people out?
What seems so obvious also seems to escape many readers.
The vast majority of people coming to sign up could care less about the spelling of items, or even the detailed history. This is a combat art so they want to see if it has the well rounded combat effective techniques they want, if it moves in a way that appeals to them and if they have confidence they can make it work and do it, so they want to see our practitioners in action. Action is the word. Ask those with their rancid web sites to show us their great Silat, compare it to what we openly post on YouTube and other places for the world to see and make a comparison. Then make your choice on action not religion, politics or just plain name calling and finger pointing. When I first saw this art being performed it was the fascinatingly deadly way it moved and hit that took me in. I did not care if it came from Leprechauns, aliens, or humans or what country it started in. I wanted what I saw!
What about on YouTube on one section it said battle tested for hundreds of years in the jungle, I thought this art was your development?
First of all I did not write that opening or produce that clip, that said I spoke with those who did and I understand what they are saying. Look at our family tree, where all the parts of the art come from, most is pre-Islamic, animistic and animal styles which have been battle tested in the jungles for hundreds of years, they were referring to our component parts. Again I simply took the old ways I found and put them back together for Pukulan Cimande Pusaka. In the end hatred and name calling will only reflect back to the character of the loud mouth. We stand proudly on how we move, how we fight, what our curriculum offers, the internal portions and healing aspects and the verifiable roots we have uncovered, join us and see or not as they choose.
Pendekar Sanders, many people have questioned your title. Do you have
any documentation that you can share?
Yes I have a document that was signed in Banten, West Java. It was
given after a week long test.
How were you tested in Banten?
The official test lasted a week, but each time I visited West Java
I felt like they were testing me. The test was to see how I moved, how
I performed various techniques, how I fought and how I handled weapons.
I was also sent into the jungle to meditate and when I returned I told
them what I had seen.
In some Chinese and Japanese systems I have heard students must pay
large sums of money for high rank or inheritance, was this the case in
Indonesia?
No, not at all. I was never asked to make any kind of donation.
Pendekar Sanders, what made you pick an unusual art like Pencak Silat?
I was looking for a fluid, powerful fighting art, and I liked the movement
of some of the Kung Fu that I saw, but I could not find anything that
I really liked. I went to see an Indonesian Martial Arts demonstration
by Guru John Malter and his students. I liked what I saw, and so I
began my training in 1972 in Wheeling, West Virginia. Guru John Malter
was a long time student of Guru Willy Wetzel.
What can you tell us about Guru Willy J.C. Wetzel?
I was told that Guru Willy John Christopher Wetzel was born on January
23, 1921 in Loemadjang (Dutch spelling), Java, Indonesia of Dutch and
Indonesian parents. Guru Wetzel trained in West Java and in WWII he
was in the Royal Dutch Indonesian Army. In 1949 he moved to Holland
and in 1956 he immigrated to Vanport, Pennsylvania. Guru Wetzel had
4 children - 3 sons, Roy, Wim and Jim and one daughter, Jane. Around
1960 he opened a school to the general public in Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania
and several of his students were John Malter, Barbara Niggel and Bill
Dobich. He died on March 17, 1975 in Beaver Falls.
Did you ever meet Guru Wetzel?
No, I never met Guru Wetzel, but I saw videos of him and I did considerable
research on him through his students and friends. Of all of the Dutch-Indo
teachers that I have seen in America, I never saw any of them who could
move and fight like he could. His art was much more fluid and complete.
How did you get information on Pencak Silat in the late 70's?
Like all students we were constantly searching for information on our
art and very little information was available. We did find a few articles
and Donn Draeger's book, The Weapons and Fighting Arts of Indonesia
was our main source.
Is Pukulan Cimande Pusaka the synthesis of a Chinese style and Pencak
Silat Cimande?
John Malter taught us, as he
had been told, that the art was a synthesis of Chinese Kuntao from
Oei Kim Boen and Indonesian Pencak Silat Cimande from Mas Djut
Bang Solimon. Please note Oei Kim Boen is not a Chinese name and
Mas Djut Bang Solimon is probably not a complete name. They supposedly
called their art Pukulan Cimandie, (Dutch spelling Poekoelan Tjimindie).
Later when I spoke to many people, including Guru Wetzel's sons,
I was told the story was a fairy tale. Roy Wetzel's exact words
to me were, "You did not believe that fairy tale did you?"
I also visited Mr. Vanderlee, a man who had spent years with Guru Wetzel
both in Indonesia and in a Japanese prison camp. Guru Wetzel had offered
to teach Mr. Vanderlee his art and I was told this man had achieved
a very high proficiency before he became sick. He laughed at me when
I asked about the Chinese portion. He said, "No way! Willy only
learned and taught pure Pencak Silat." I can only guess the rest.
I believe this story served as a marketing strategy to attract students
to take a look at what he had. Chinese Kung Fu was very popular during
this time and virtually no one had any idea what Pencak Silat was. This
is based on interviews that I conducted with people in America who had
visited with Guru Wetzel. To further illustrate the point Oei Kim Boen
did not live in the same time period as Mas Djut by many dates that
I have seen. Furthermore the Indonesians do not get along well with
the Chinese. Pendekar Jafri and I did extensive investigations in West
Java. We concluded there was no record of these two men collaborating
on an art. Let there be no mistake Guru Wetzel's art was 100 percent
deadly Silat. His art was a superior combat system, and if you saw it
you wanted it. There was no other Pencak Silat teacher that I witnessed
that had the fascinatingly deadly manner of movement that Guru Wetzel
brought to America. Most of what I saw looked stiff and robotic in comparison.
It was not until I visited the jungles of Java that I saw his movement
in the best of the Cimande fighters. Guru Wetzel did say this was a
"high caste" Cimande system and this seemed to be verified.
I am not saying there might not have been others as good. Willem
Reeders was active around this period and I heard nothing but great
things about him, but unfortunately I never saw him or a video of him
in action. Before anyone gets riled up over me not believing the story
of the history, I can only say that it could never be verified and
was not supported by those I mentioned. These discrepancies led me
to Indonesia in the first place. Still I am very thankful for what
Guru Malter taught me of his art, as it remained the standard in
my mind of what I wanted to flesh out.
Can you explain the various spellings of Cimande?
I use the original spelling Cimande, which is one word and not two
as I have seen printed in error. I was told to add the word Pusaka to
the end of the art to signify it as an heirloom, which is old and valuable
and to be passed on from father to son. Barbara Niggel teaches in Cape
Cod, in Orleans, Massachusetts and her art is named Poekoelan Tjimindie
Tulen. John Malter teaches in Ohio and his art is called Poekoelan
Chuan-Fa Tjimindie.
What can you tell us about the origins of Cimande?
Pendekar Suryadi Jafri and I researched
the roots of Cimande when I was in West Java. The information that
we found matches the information in the book by Haji Suhari Supari,
who is head of Pencak-Silat Panca Sakiti and is their oldest teacher.
Embah Kahir was the founder of Cimande and he lived around 1780
in a village called Cogreg, which is near Bogor, West Java. He
named his style "Cimande" because he lived near
a river called the Cimande River. Embah Kahir was married in Cianjur,
lived in Kamurang and had five sons named Endut, Ocod, Otoy, Komar
and Oyot. Embah Kahir died in Tarikuwt Cimande around 1825 and
his grave is in Sereal Bogor. He had many students in places like
Bogor, Banten, Jakarta and Bandung in West Java. Several of Embah
Kahir's students were Mr. Sera, Mr. Bidong, Mailin, Mr. Abo and
Pendekar Age, who lived in Tarik Kolot Cimande. These men along
with Embah Kahir's sons spread Cimande to Bandung and various areas
of West Java. Through many Pendekars other variations of Cimande
developed. According to the Pencak Silat Association of Jakarta
there are approximately 100 different Cimande systems. My particular
version is called Pukulan Cimande Pusaka. The variations of Cimande
differ, but the principles, the feeling and the flow of Cimande
remain the same. If you were to look on a map of West Java the
roots of Cimande would be found in the triangular region formed
by Bogor on the west, Mt. Gede-Pangrango National Park on the south
and Cianjur on the east.
Where do Mas Djut and Mr. Atma fit into this historical picture?
Mas Djut was a high level Cimande
- Sera practitioner that trained with one of Embah Kahir's descendants
since Embah Kahir died in 1825. Mr. Atma or "Pak" Atma, as he is referred
to, was also a high level Cimande practitioner who was born around
1900. Donn Draeger in 1972 makes reference to him in his book, p 42
and I quote, "Atma is currently a Tjiliwung tea plantation
worker whose sixty odd years fail to lessen his amazing and graceful
skill."
I believe I read somewhere that Mas Djut was a member of the Badui
people in West Java. Is this possible?
Anyone who consults the research
of the Badui people by Sir Thomas Raffles in History of Java (1830)
or Nina Epton's Magic and Mystics of Java (1974) will see that
Mas Djut could not have been an active member of the "white" Badui or "blue" Badui. The
Badui do not practice any kind of martial art and when Nina Epton interviewed
a member of the Badui on their moral code they replied, "It is
forbidden to us to hurt other people by way of mouth, eyes, hands, feelings." Mas
Djut could have been born a Badui and then decided to leave, but
his Pencak Silat abilities had to have been learned from one of
the descendants of Embah Kahir.
How long did you train with John Malter and what was the highest
rank that you received?
I trained with John Malter from late 1972 until 1983 when I was awarded
the title of 7th Degree Red Dragon.
When did you begin to seek out other Cimande instructors so that you
could enhance your training?
I was searching for knowledge on this art from anyone who claimed to
have some affiliation with Cimande. In 1980 I heard Pendekar Suryadi
Jafri was in New York City as the then official Indonesian representative
to America in Pencak Silat. We became friends and we trained for several
weeks in New York and then several weeks at my house. This kind of training
went on for a long time. Through this training I learned certain portions
of the art had been omitted from my previous training, i.e. jurus, lankas,
weapon training and internal aspects. In 1983, I trained with Pendekar
Paul De Thouars since he said he was in possession of the original Cimande
jurus (upper body movements), lankas (longer movements adding footwork)
and the fighting ways of Bapak Sera, who had been a well known student
of Embah Kahir. I also trained in 1987 with Art Remrev from Indonesia
on his knowledge of Cimande and Bapak Sera. Eventually I amassed a picture
of Cimande supplied by various people. These were not different arts
but different interpretations of the same art.
When did you decide to go to West Java to further your training?
In 1983, Pendekar Jafri, who I had the most
respect for, advised me to go directly to the source in Indonesia.
He said that he would take me to various masters and villages so
that they could sort out what I did and did not know. On my first
trip I was introduced to Pendekar Sirait of Persatuan Pendekar Persilatan
Seni Budaya Banten Indonesia (The Society of Arts and Culture of
Pendekar Persilatan Banten). This was the group of the "kolot" (old style) Pencak Silat of Indonesia.
Pendekar Jafri considered them to be the most prestigious group of the
old combat arts in Java. The IPSI which is the national government run
branch of Pencak Silat had become more involved with Pencak Silat for
sport, i.e. structuring it for National competitions. The old Pendekars
of the PPPSBBI kept more to the combat mentality, the old animal styles
and the internal development with the Ilmu. So began a restructuring
process. They recognized the type of movement which I had been taught
and instructed me in a way so as to compliment what I knew. These were
seasoned practitioners who had the same fluid powerful movements I had
originally been drawn to. They showed me what to modify, what to add
and what to keep. I was also sent to Pendekar Sartono, my spiritual
teacher and now great friend, who taught me the internal portions of
the art. Without a question I believe the internal portions are the
most important for all aspects of your life and the art. I continued
my yearly trips to West Java from 1983 to 1987. Pendekar Sartono awarded
me the magickal inheritance of the system in 1985. In 1987, in Banten
West Java I was awarded the title of "Pendekar of Cimande" by
the PPPSBBI. I was tested and not even told whether I had passed until
after I returned home. This gave me confidence that what I passed on
to my students had been approved from the source, the mother country.
It is like a Doctor passing the Medical exam. At least his patients
can see he received the correct training. You get a diploma from high
school, a degree from college, a driving license if you pass your driving
test or if you open a business you must get a business license. These
are proof of your accomplishment and it gives you the right to do something
or claim something. I can't believe the gullibility of some martial
artists who claim you should look down on certifications. In most cases
I think its because they themselves or their teacher had none. Of course
the bottom line is look at the art. It should have both the quality
and the documentation. In 1997, I returned to see my teacher Pendekar
Sartono in Java and visited Bali. I worked out with Masters of Cimande
trance fighters and Bahkti Negara in Bali. All of them recognized my
Silat Cimande at once. Many said they had seen a few people from America
and were dismayed at their expression of Pencak Silat. They were very
pleased to see their art was really alive in America. That recognition
meant a lot to me and I knew I had done the right thing by seeking
knowledge from Indonesia all those years ago.
Compared to some Silat and other Malay Arts Cimande has a lot of Bunga and stylized flowery moves. Does this make it less effective or less deadly?
This is exactly one area that will separate the superior person we are seeking from the run of the mill grunt and groan martial artist. Not everyone will understand this which is why it has always been said Cimande is only for the chosen few. My book the Twelfth Principle speaks of it in detail. This artistic side has always been well known to highly intelligent people and it is the one and only way to open the gateway to the divine and real internal power. Even in the old schools of combat a person would learn combative horsemanship, fencing and music, as well as hand to hand to open the gateway to the inside. Look even at the Chinese arts, the softest and most flowing such Hsing -I Chuan (XingYiQuan), Pa-Kua Chang (BaGuaZhang) and Tai-Chi Chuan (TaiJiQuan) are considered among the deadliest. Once this side is allowed to open its energy is fused with the physical and together with the animal mannerisms and trance fighting combine to make at once the most beautiful but hardest hitting and most vicious fighting art known.
Only those completely dedicated to this art can make this ultimate blending work. Others who are dabblers and wanna b's will eventually get beaten up by someone and then give it up because they couldn't do it and then they see the false promise of needing harsher methods. The real fact was they were screwing up or just didn't have it.
I gave an example once that we must hit like a keris either straight and direct or wavy moving in and out all the while being a beautiful piece of art and filled with hidden magical power. Someone who obviously never got it, despite thinking they did, recently said that it was better to just have a solid sword to cut down a piece of wood or your opponent's head instead of the weaker keris. What a waste of years to go back to cave man mentality. Like I said this is only for the chosen few. The end result for those who never give up is not just a fighting art but a better way of life and a better way into the after life. It is also a better understanding of nature and life. It is something actually much better than just being able to fight a mugger. It is being able to fight the bad things in this world on the mental and physical planes. Someone who does this art correctly should be liked by more people than hated by them. It is ok to be hated by the bad guys!! When most of your students turn against you well then take a hard look into the mirror to see what made them all run away, and don't blame them or make up some phony story that you wanted to close your school etc, etc.
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